C64 TOWER QUESTION
==================
Subject: C64 Tower
From: Robert Norris
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 12:28:39 -0800
Good morning.
I was thinking to myself the other day (a scary thing at the best of
times :), I wonder if we could bring the C64 into the 90's, so to speak,
by fitting the board and other associated gubbins in a PC tower case.
Now don't get me wrong, I love the 64, but the old brown case gives me
the shits because, well, it's just not nice. I was thinking that the
board, drives, power supply, and my ARVI could be mounted inside a PC
case.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be a fairly major job,
and something would have to be worked out with the keyboard, but with a
bit of time and effort something could probably be worked out.
I intend to have a damn good go at it (using spare parts, not my good 64
:) sometime in the next couple of months, but I'd like to hear from
anyone who's tried something similar.
Regards
Rob.
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From djd16@cornell.edu (Diego J. Diaz)
Date 6 Mar 1998 02:34:01 GMT
Hi! Your idea is not that new! Some people already did so. Check
Ilker Ficicilar's page:
http://newton.physics.metu.edu.tr/~filker/cbm.html
and especially the hardware hacks section. He is working on it. Also there is
a document on somebody who put a C64 on a AT case.
I am looking forward to try the same as I have more than one C64.
Diego J.
>Rob.
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Lorax
Date Fri, 06 Mar 1998 06:03:39 GMT
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Robert Norris wrote:
> I intend to have a damn good go at it (using spare parts, not my good 64
> :) sometime in the next couple of months, but I'd like to hear from
> anyone who's tried something similar.
If you need more spare parts let me know. I have a stack of
Commodore hardware, some working, some not, will sell you anything you
need in whatever condtion cheap. Working 64 or 1541 disk drive $15 each
or $25 for both, non-working 64s and 1541s from $5 each.
"For our hope lies in the dreamers. All the inventors, engineers, and
builders can not create anything until it has first been imagined."
-- Ma. Robert Helimand --
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From bo@prismnet.com
Date Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:57:54 -0600
>
>Good morning.
>
>I was thinking to myself the other day (a scary thing at the best of
>times :), I wonder if we could bring the C64 into the 90's, so to speak,
>by fitting the board and other associated gubbins in a PC tower case.
>
>Now don't get me wrong, I love the 64, but the old brown case gives me
>the shits because, well, it's just not nice. I was thinking that the
>board, drives, power supply, and my ARVI could be mounted inside a PC
>case.
>
>Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be a fairly major job,
>and something would have to be worked out with the keyboard, but with a
>bit of time and effort something could probably be worked out.
>
>I intend to have a damn good go at it (using spare parts, not my good 64
>:) sometime in the next couple of months, but I'd like to hear from
>anyone who's tried something similar.
>
>Regards
>
>Rob.
Hey Rob... aside from those you have done it, I'm also trying it.
I have a full tower I'm trying to mount a C128 motherboard in, I'll mount
a 1571 mech, and a 1581 inside. I already have the motherboard mounted,
a CMD RamLink mounted (with a 1750 clone and swiftlink in there). The only
real work left is to build all the cables necessary to make the external ports
useful.
However, there is some cheese. In order to get the 9V I needed for the
C128 motherboard, I actually mounted a C128 power supply inside and hooked it
off the same switch as the PC power supply. I even insulated the extra PS
against any sort of radiations and added a little fan to boot. This strikes
me as awful though, and I've always hoped to get better ideas from someone.
Does anyone know a power supply maker that makes 5V/9V/12V power supplies
that fit in tower cases? If not, is it possible to pull one of the 5V up or
a 12V down with some simple circuit? I know nothing of power supplies...
Anyways, my other big issue is power for the RamLink. It needs constant
power, but it strikes me as silly to actually mount the little transformer
in there... and an external port just for this power supply seems silly too,
and yet that's all I can think of. Any other ideas?
- Bo
--
Bo Zimmerman
mailto:bo@prismnet.com
http://www.prismnet.com/~bo
"geoJunky at large"
[C128D-20mhz-330HD-14.4-13mgRL-2xFD2000]
[C64/C64C/C65/VIC20/PLUS4/SX64/C128/C16]
[C=SP9000/C=Colt/C=PC10/CDTV/A500/A3000]
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From dross4@niu.edu (Dave Ross)
Date Fri, 06 Mar 1998 18:42:53 GMT
In article <6dp2s0$m9f$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, bo@prismnet.com wrote:
>Does anyone know a power supply maker that makes 5V/9V/12V power supplies
>that fit in tower cases? If not, is it possible to pull one of the 5V up or
>a 12V down with some simple circuit? I know nothing of power supplies...
A simple DC transformer will do the trick.
"...for behold, all acts of love
I Dave R. - dross4@niu.edu and pleasure are my rituals."
O\\\\\\I==============================-
I http://www.cs.niu.edu/~z956832/ - The Charge of the Goddess
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Lorax
Date Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:31:48 GMT
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 bo@prismnet.com wrote:
> However, there is some cheese. In order to get the 9V I needed for the
> C128 motherboard, I actually mounted a C128 power supply inside and hooked it
> off the same switch as the PC power supply. I even insulated the extra PS
> against any sort of radiations and added a little fan to boot. This strikes
> me as awful though, and I've always hoped to get better ideas from someone.
> Does anyone know a power supply maker that makes 5V/9V/12V power supplies
> that fit in tower cases? If not, is it possible to pull one of the 5V up or
> a 12V down with some simple circuit? I know nothing of power supplies...
First of all you need to check if that 9V is DC or AC. On the 64
the 9V from the power supply was AC current and I expect it will be on the
128 too but I've never put the tester to mine. If it is then you will
never get it from a PC power supply because these deal stictly in DC
current. The only way you would be able to do that would be to actually
go inside the PC power supply and tap voltage from in between the
transformer and the rectifier. Depending on the transformer you might be
able to tap any desired voltage off of it and that could be all you need
for the 9V AC.
If by some chance it is DC then yes you could take a 12V DC line
and build a simple voltage divider with a few resistors that would take it
down to 9V DC.
> Anyways, my other big issue is power for the RamLink. It needs constant
> power, but it strikes me as silly to actually mount the little transformer
> in there... and an external port just for this power supply seems silly too,
> and yet that's all I can think of. Any other ideas?
I'm not familiar with the RamLink or it's power requirements but
I'm guessing it probably takes 5V DC. If so why can't you just take one
of the power plugs from the PC power supply and use that to power the
RamLink?
"For our hope lies in the dreamers. All the inventors, engineers, and
builders can not create anything until it has first been imagined."
-- Ma. Robert Helimand --
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Raymond Carlsen
Date Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:46:31 -0800
> In order to get the 9V I needed for the
> C128 motherboard, I actually mounted a C128 power supply inside and hooked it
> off the same switch as the PC power supply. I even insulated the extra PS
> against any sort of radiations and added a little fan to boot. This strikes
> me as awful though, and I've always hoped to get better ideas from someone.
> Does anyone know a power supply maker that makes 5V/9V/12V power supplies
> that fit in tower cases?
Nobody else makes a multi-output supply with 9VAC output, I'm afraid.
I would go with the original tower case IBM supply and install a small 9VAV
transformer somewhere inside the tower. Radio Shack has a 18VCT (18 volt
center tapped) transformer that would work... just use the center tap and
one of the outer legs for the 9 volts. The RS part number is RSU 10524239,
but any other vendor could probably supply a "generic" 9VAC @ 1Amp.
An IBM power supply outputs +5 volts DC at anywhere from 5 to 25 Amps
(much more than you'll ever need) and +12VDC at from 2 to 10 Amps. With
those two outputs, it can run the drives too. It also outputs -12VDC and
-5VDC (not needed). PC supplies have a fan built-in. Since they are
switchers, you can't tap off the 9 volts AC from them... they run at very
high frequencies, not 60 Hz. So, it's necessary to add a small transformer
for the 9 volts which -must- be isolated from ground to work properly...
another reason not to try and modify an existing non-CBM supply.
Note: if you're working with PC power supplies, be aware that they
require a minimum load to work, otherwise they shut down or will not start
up. The minimum recommended load is at least 10% of the maximum power
output on the +5 volt line. I've repaired those supplies, and for test
purposes, I use an automobile taillight (dual filament). I wire the heavier
filament to the +5 volt output (the red wire), the smaller filament to the
+12 volt output (yellow wire), and common to ground (black). The 128 will
provide enough of a load to the supply. Just don't let a PC supply fool you
into thinking it's dead if there is no load on it.
> Anyways, my other big issue is power for the RamLink. It needs constant
> power, but it strikes me as silly to actually mount the little transformer
> in there... and an external port just for this power supply seems silly too,
> and yet that's all I can think of. Any other ideas?
It's probably the easiest, unless you want to dig inside the PC power
supply to get the "always live" AC input for the RAMLink supply. One
additional power cord to the wall or plug strip is not so bad. You could
also go with rechargeable batteries (a large pack) inside the tower to run
the RAMLink, powered and recharged by the PC switcher when it's on.
Note that I've never done a tower install like this... these are only
suggestions. Wish I had more time to "play". I'd probably tackle it.
Ray Carlsen CET
Carlsen Electronics
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Matthew Hudson
Date Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:50:41 -0600
Lorax wrote:
> > Does anyone know a power supply maker that makes 5V/9V/12V power supplies
> > that fit in tower cases? If not, is it possible to pull one of the 5V up o
r
> > a 12V down with some simple circuit? I know nothing of power supplies...
>
> First of all you need to check if that 9V is DC or AC. On the 64
> the 9V from the power supply was AC current and I expect it will be on the
> 128 too but I've never put the tester to mine. If it is then you will
> never get it from a PC power supply because these deal stictly in DC
> current. The only way you would be able to do that would be to actually
> go inside the PC power supply and tap voltage from in between the
> transformer and the rectifier. Depending on the transformer you might be
> able to tap any desired voltage off of it and that could be all you need
> for the 9V AC.
The 9VAC in the C64 goes to a 5V regulator and a 12V regulator. Hmm.
Thinking
about it now you could remove both the regulators and drop the +5 and
+12 lines
directly to the MB. You'll loose the +9 UNREG at the user port and the
cassette port
but it should work (although you could put in a 9.? zener there and get
the desired
voltage).
-Matt
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Marko.Makela@HUT.FI
Date 07 Mar 1998 11:05:37 +0200
>>>>> "Matt" == Matthew Hudson writes:
Matt> The 9VAC in the C64 goes to a 5V regulator and a 12V
Matt> regulator. Hmm. Thinking about it now you could remove both the
Matt> regulators and drop the +5 and +12 lines directly to the
Matt> MB.
There are some instructions to this in
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/projects/other/c64-with-12volts.
Matt> You'll loose the +9 UNREG at the user port and the cassette
Matt> port but it should work (although you could put in a 9.? zener
Matt> there and get the desired voltage).
You'll also loose the 9VAC on the user port, but it shouldn't be that
crucial, since not many user port devices should need it. Besides,
the 9VAC output was replaced with an 9VDC output in some later
models. You could maybe use a zener also there.
--
Marko Mdkeld , http://www.hut.fi/home/msmakela/
Helsinki University of Technology, dept. of Computer Science
ANSWER TO C64 TOWER QUESTION
============================
From filker@newton.physics.metu.edu.tr Tue Mar 7 12:40:49 1998
From: ilker ficicilar
Subject: About C64 Tower Project
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 12:40:49 +0300
Organization: Middle East Technical University
Hi,
After reading some posts about C64 tower I began to write the below
letter yesterday. I was about to continue on it, but I read some new posts
about the subject a couple of minutes ago, and decided to send this
unfinished letter immediately.
This is because of the discouraging nature of the posts I saw. That is,
you need no any other power supply or voltage converter, but the PC case's
supply. The project is extremely easy.
So, please just read this:
Hello There,
I don't check this c.s.c. group frequently. But almost always I found
discussions interesting for me. Recently there were a C64 Tower question.
Robert Norris asks if anybody knows something to make a C64 Tower reality.
Lorax quoted an encouraging text atthe end of his e-mail. And Diego gave
some information about me and my web-page. Diego also asked me when I will
finish documenting the C64 Tower Project ( and he spelled myname wrong. One
can call me Ilker (pronounced ill-care) not Ilfelr ;-) )
Actually I do own a self-built C64 Tower for one or two years. And belive
me it's not a hard-to-do job. Trying to fit something into the tower case
is what, the most annoying thing during the C64 Tower Project. You may need
to cut corners of the boards, or you may need to reshape the inside of the
tower. And you also have to be good at soldering. You need to much soldering
for cabling the ports, keyboard, drive etc. But electronics part of the
project is easy: only the 50/60 Hz. timer for TOD clock. ( I used a very
simplecircuit using a 555 IC and a few resistors. It's not exact but who
cares :-) )
Firstly, you should try powering up your C64 with +5V supply only. You can
use red wire of tower's supply. If you have noticed there are cables inside
the tower case with 4 wires: 2 black in the middle, red and yellow at the
sides. Yellow one contains 12V. Their currents are about 2.8A - 3.6A .
So, attach some wires to red and black. Then tie the black wire to the ground
of the C64 board. And, tie/solder the +5V to the appropriate place (after the
power plug, before the first resistor [means: I don't remember where] ). After
this wiring. turn off C64 power switch, and turn on the Tower. Your C64 must
run at this stage. But you can get no sound, no 9V from the user port, and no
TOD clock timing. As you may notice, SID chip is not required to power up a
C64. Now if you are happy with this setup. Put the board into the tower, read
my article on C64 keyboard, and make some cables to attach ports to the back
of the Tower, you also need some metals/tins with the shape of those metal
things screewed at the back of case. I used deodarant cans for this purpose,
and made holes for the interfaces, such as [TV, composite, chroma/luma ]
, [audio in, digitizer in, stereo audio out], [ keyboard, at-keyboard],
[serial port-1, serial port-2], [joystick port-1 , and port-2] . Note that
in the previous sentence, each enclosed brackets donote a metal sheet. (You
need more than one can :-) )
If you want to get sound from your C64 tower, you need to wire 12V also. This
stage is also easy. Locate the one big capacitor near the SID first. Then,
attach/solder the black and yellow wires to the appropriate ends of this
capacitor. That's it. And for the TOD clock you should build and solder the
timer. The timer needs hooked up to TOD pin of one of the CIA chips. ( you
also need to cut a trace near the AC-DC converter, but I forgot which).
... to be continued.
Ilker Ficicilar
c068214@orca.cc.metu.edu.tr filker@newton.physics.metu.edu.tr
http://www.physics.metu.edu.tr/ ~filker/cbm.html
---
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From cht@gis.net (Rev. Jihad Frenzy)
Date Sat, 07 Mar 1998 14:11:19 -0500
Or...
One can do what I saw some years ago, and install a C64 motherboard, 1581
mechanism, REU and 9" color studio monitor in a Macintosh SE cabinet. With
room left over (although not much) for a power supply, amp for the speaker
and Omnitronix RS-232 interface.
The keyboard was from an SX64 and there was also a CBM mouse installed.
(OCP Advanced Art Studio and GEOS, you know)
The icing on the cake was replacing the Apple logo with the C= insert from
the top of a 1541 and the Macintosh SE with the inset eschutcheon from a
C64-C.
Now, THAT was a fine peice of hardware hacking.
--
Rev. Jihad Frenzy
"Gadzooks!", quoth I, "But here's a saucy bawd!"
I, Libertine
by Fredrick R. Ewing
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Lorax
Date Sun, 08 Mar 1998 05:52:16 GMT
On 7 Mar 1998, Marko [ISO-8859-1] M=E4kel=E4 wrote:
> You'll also loose the 9VAC on the user port, but it shouldn't be that
> crucial, since not many user port devices should need it. Besides,
> the 9VAC output was replaced with an 9VDC output in some later
> models. You could maybe use a zener also there.
=09Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure many people will) but isn't
the reason a Commodore needs the AC voltage instead of just straight DC
the fact that it has no timing crystal and so it relies on the cycling of
the AC sine was as its timing constant? At least this is what I was told
often and repeatedly when I tried to make a portable 64 system run on a
battery pack.=20
"For our hope lies in the dreamers. All the inventors, engineers, and
builders can not create anything until it has first been imagined."
=09=09-- Ma. Robert Helimand --
RE: C64 TOWER
=============
From Matthew Hudson
Date Sun, 08 Mar 1998 03:44:56 -0600
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure many people will) but isn't
> the reason a Commodore needs the AC voltage instead of just straight DC
> the fact that it has no timing crystal and so it relies on the cycling of
> the AC sine was as its timing constant? At least this is what I was told
> often and repeatedly when I tried to make a portable 64 system run on a
> battery pack.
The 9VAC has nothing to do with timing.
-Matt
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
From: Marko.Makela@HUT.FI
Date: 08 Mar 1998 14:02:56 +0200
>>>>> "Lorax" == Lorax writes:
Lorax> Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure many people will) but
Lorax> isn't the reason a Commodore needs the AC voltage instead of
Lorax> just straight DC the fact that it has no timing crystal and so
Lorax> it relies on the cycling of the AC sine was as its timing
Lorax> constant?
Well, it would certainly be interesting to build a frequency
multiplier that multiplies the AC frequency by 20000, but that is not
the case in the C64. The AC frequency is only used for the CIA's Time
of Day clock, which isn't used by the KERNAL or BASIC. Some software
uses the CIA's clock, for instance GEOS does. If you really need the
clock, you can build a 555-based oscillator that generates the 50Hz or
60Hz signal.
Another interesting project would be a rack-mounted Commodore pack.
Something like a VIC-20, C64 and C16 mounted in a rack, and some
switches to select which machine uses which disk drive (the drive(s)
could be shared among the computers), to select the video chip
(PAL/NTSC; it might be easier to have separate computers for PAL/NTSC,
because the switching approach would require replacing the 40-pin
video chip and the crystal, which means more than 120 electronic
contacts), and the video output (which monitor is assigned to which
computer). Also the keyboard could be switchable (one keyboard for
all machines, or a separate keyboard for the C16, since its wiring is
slightly different). Has anyone done anything like this?
--
Marko Mäkelä , http://www.hut.fi/home/msmakela/
Helsinki University of Technology, dept. of Computer Science
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
From: vjouppi@sci.fi (Ville Jouppi)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:13:41 GMT
On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:50:41 -0600, Matthew Hudson
wrote:
>The 9VAC in the C64 goes to a 5V regulator and a 12V regulator. Hmm.
>Thinking
>about it now you could remove both the regulators and drop the +5 and
>+12 lines
>directly to the MB. You'll loose the +9 UNREG at the user port and the
>cassette port
>but it should work (although you could put in a 9.? zener there and get
>the desired
>voltage).
The CIA takes it's clock from 9VAC, so it wouldn't be such a good idea
to remove it. :-) (correct me if I'm wrong)
--
Email: vjouppi@sci.fi, URL: http://www.sci.fi/~vjouppi/
GSM: +358-40-5679999, IRCNet: Jope(^)
Universal CBM & TI-calc nut, Scout, Pilot, "Student"
A Nokia emulator for Ericssons: +b+a+#C+#D+#g+#fAB+#f+e(b)AB+E
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
From: Nate Dannenberg
Date: 1998/03/08
> > the AC sine was as its timing constant? At least this is what I was told
> > often and repeatedly when I tried to make a portable 64 system run on a
> > battery pack.
>
> The 9VAC has nothing to do with timing.
Not exactly. The 9VAC is used to drive the CIA's "TOD" clocks. It uses
the 60Hz pulse as a simple timing signal.
In PAL countries this is a 50HZ signal, which is why the CIA's have
PAL/NTSC settings in them.
The 64 uses a 14.31818 MHz XTAL crystal (some 17MHz in PAL) as the timing
base for everything, from which the VIC-II generates the "Dot" clock (the
pixel timer), the 3.58MHz (~4MHz PAL) color clock used for the color
signal, and the 1.022 MHz system clock (0.98 Mhz in PAL).
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/
_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/
_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/
natedac(at)southwind(dot)net //\_/ http://www2.southwind.net/~natedac
---
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
From: Matthew Hudson
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:05:17 -0600
Nate Dannenberg wrote:
>
> >
> > The 9VAC has nothing to do with timing.
>
> Not exactly. The 9VAC is used to drive the CIA's "TOD" clocks. It uses
> the 60Hz pulse as a simple timing signal.
>
> In PAL countries this is a 50HZ signal, which is why the CIA's have
> PAL/NTSC settings in them.
>
> The 64 uses a 14.31818 MHz XTAL crystal (some 17MHz in PAL) as the timing
> base for everything, from which the VIC-II generates the "Dot" clock (the
> pixel timer), the 3.58MHz (~4MHz PAL) color clock used for the color
> signal, and the 1.022 MHz system clock (0.98 Mhz in PAL).
I stand corrected (and verified it with the schematic). But in that
case a simple timer circuit would work just as well.
-Matt
---
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
From: Fungus - F4CG/Carcass
Date: 1998/03/09
On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Lorax wrote:
|On 7 Mar 1998, Marko [ISO-8859-1] M=E4kel=E4 wrote:
|
|> You'll also loose the 9VAC on the user port, but it shouldn't be that
|> crucial, since not many user port devices should need it. Besides,
|> the 9VAC output was replaced with an 9VDC output in some later
|> models. You could maybe use a zener also there.
|
|=09Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure many people will) but isn't
|the reason a Commodore needs the AC voltage instead of just straight DC
|the fact that it has no timing crystal and so it relies on the cycling of
|the AC sine was as its timing constant? At least this is what I was told
|often and repeatedly when I tried to make a portable 64 system run on a
|battery pack.=20
Actually, the 9VAC is for the tape motor, and also routed to the user port=
to
power external devices there.
The only thing it's actually hooked to (looking at the SX64 schematics) is
the TOD clock pin on one of the CIA's.
The phase 1 and phase 2 clocks are generated by a crystal and the vicII ch=
ip.
/Fungus
---
Re: C64 Tower - keyboard
========================
Subject: Re: C64 Tower - keyboard
From: Paul Albers
Date: 1998/03/09
Robert Norris wrote:
>
> Good morning.
>
> I was thinking to myself the other day (a scary thing at the best of
> times :), I wonder if we could bring the C64 into the 90's, so to speak,
> by fitting the board and other associated gubbins in a PC tower case.
>
> Now don't get me wrong, I love the 64, but the old brown case gives me
> the shits because, well, it's just not nice. I was thinking that the
> board, drives, power supply, and my ARVI could be mounted inside a PC
> case.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be a fairly major job,
> and something would have to be worked out with the keyboard, but with a
> bit of time and effort something could probably be worked out.
>
> I intend to have a damn good go at it (using spare parts, not my good 64
> :) sometime in the next couple of months, but I'd like to hear from
> anyone who's tried something similar.
I've been tossing this idea around for some time. My big
question is about attaching a PC style keyboard to the C64.
I've seen plans that just attach the keyboard to the cassette
port and uses software to translate the key presses, but that's
not what I want. I want full harware emulation, no software
wedges or anything like that.
Is there some way to make an independent 'black box' that
would connect a PC keyboard to the 64 this way? In theory
it dosn't strike me as being a big deal, PC scancode in,
C64 'scancode' out.
Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Albers (pa@gis.shl.com)
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
-- Dr. Who
---
Real time clock (was Re: C64 Tower)
===================================
Subject: Real time clock (was Re: C64 Tower)
From: Lorax
Date: 1998/03/08
On 8 Mar 1998, Marko [ISO-8859-1] M=E4kel=E4 wrote:
> Well, it would certainly be interesting to build a frequency
> multiplier that multiplies the AC frequency by 20000, but that is not
> the case in the C64. The AC frequency is only used for the CIA's Time
> of Day clock, which isn't used by the KERNAL or BASIC. Some software
> uses the CIA's clock, for instance GEOS does. If you really need the
> clock, you can build a 555-based oscillator that generates the 50Hz or
> 60Hz signal.
=09Can you give specifics on building this generator and where you
would need to hook it into the 64? This bring up another interesting item
I would love to have for my machines, a real time clock that would keep
the time after the power is turned off.
"For our hope lies in the dreamers. All the inventors, engineers, and
builders can not create anything until it has first been imagined."
=09=09-- Ma. Robert Helimand --
---
Re: Real time clock (was Re: C64 Tower)
=======================================
Subject: Re: Real time clock (was Re: C64 Tower)
From: mmontcha@orednet.org (Matthew Montchalin)
Date: 1998/03/09
Marko Mekel probably wrote:
>> the case in the C64. The AC frequency is only used for the CIA's Time
>> of Day clock, which isn't used by the KERNAL or BASIC. Some software
>> uses the CIA's clock, for instance GEOS does. If you really need the
>> clock, you can build a 555-based oscillator that generates the 50Hz or
>> 60Hz signal.
Lorax was curious:
>Can you give specifics on building this generator and where you
>would need to hook it into the 64? This bring up another interesting item
>I would love to have for my machines, a real time clock that would keep
>the time after the power is turned off.
Uh, now, wait a second --- it seems that the VIC-II chip /does/ need some
kind of 50 Hz or 60 Hz signal, at the least, and the ROM reset code for a
C-64 makes a guess on that basis, so as to adjust the initialization of
the VIC-II chip to operate properly. Secondly, doesn't VIC stretch the
clock cycles --- during phi2 or such --- to access screen RAM and color
RAM? Thus, you really ought to provide SOME kind of oscillation for that
very purpose, if you want to operate your C-64 from a battery (or
equivalent of a non-interruptible power supply).
But the most intriguing thing to do, is imagine what a third generation
VIC chip could have been capable of. Some users want more colors, and
other users want more sprites. IMO, we ought to look at this from a
hardware angle: no more of that nonsense about stretching the clock
cycles for letting VIC read RAM to generate an image. The VIC chip ought
to have had its own private screen RAM and color RAM, and there should
have been a user-selectable toggle to trigger a bank wide DMA to load the
VIC chip from the main C-64 memory! Also, more sprites would have been
easy to implement if the VIC had had its own 64K of RAM. And a lesson can
be learnt when comparing my vision of a VIC-III with that miserable 8563
that the C-128 got stuck with: no more of that bottleneck nonsense. If
we need to mess with VIC ram, we can do it 1K at a shot. That way we
could still have screen memory at $0400 and color memory at $d800, then
toggle the DMA to trigger a VIC read, and presto, everything in place. If
we foolishly wanted to have BASIC do it for us, then that sort of thing
could be wedged into the CHROUT kernal routine.
--
At enim vela pendent liminibus grammaticarum scholarum, sed non illa magis
honorem secreti quam tegimentum erroris significant. -Confessiones St. Aug.
---
Re: C64 Tower
=============
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:17:46 -0700
From: Phil Porth
Subject: Re: C64 Tower
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Robert Norris wrote:
> Good morning.
>
> I was thinking to myself the other day (a scary thing at the best of
> times :), I wonder if we could bring the C64 into the 90's, so to speak,
> by fitting the board and other associated gubbins in a PC tower case.
>
> Now don't get me wrong, I love the 64, but the old brown case gives me
> the shits because, well, it's just not nice. I was thinking that the
> board, drives, power supply, and my ARVI could be mounted inside a PC
> case.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be a fairly major job,
> and something would have to be worked out with the keyboard, but with a
> bit of time and effort something could probably be worked out.
>
> I intend to have a damn good go at it (using spare parts, not my good 64
> :) sometime in the next couple of months, but I'd like to hear from
> anyone who's tried something similar.
If you have access to past issues of Commodore World you might want to
check out the front cover with the C-128 tower, built by Al Anger of Miami
Fla. I think he also goes by the name Wile.E.Coyote on Commodore Net, the
address in the mag is: d0141066c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
This issue also shows dual:l 1581's dual 128's , 128d with a 1581 drive
128d type case with CMD FD4000, and CMD HD and RamLink
I too have entertained the thought to make a 128 tower, I now have all the
necessary parts except the tower case.
Phil Porth (aka Phone Man)
If you're looking for someone with a LITTLE AUTHORITY, then you've come to the
right person. I have as little authority as anybody else here.
from the Land of the frozen NORTH, Calgary Alberta
Home of the Calgary Stampede and the Calgary Commodore Users Group
Thanks to those who continue to abuse the INTERNET, Most of my mail now is
unwanted JUNK MAIL.
---
Super CMD 64
============
Subject: Super CMD 64
From: Erik Hume
Date: 1998/03/10
All of this talk of a C64 in a tower case has me wondering -- what
if CMD made a new C64 with a SuperCPU, RamLink, Swiftlink & JiffyDOS
built in? Now, I know this would probably not be a commercially viable
product, but humor me for a second. Make a small cube-like case (no
bigger than an Apple //gs) and redesign a Rev. E mobo to fit in it.
Include internal slots (ala PC/Apple) on the mobo that are pin
compatible with the expansion port. Make a SuperCPU card, RAMLink Card,
Swiftlink Card, etc for these slots. Make an external keyboard for the
machine. Keep all physical storage devices external (a la Apple) to
keep costs down.
I imagine any copyright issues could be easily circumvented by requiring
purchasers to either provide original C64C roms or work them into the
purchase price.
Now I know that this would probably not be a commercially viable option
for CMD (or any manufacturer at this point), but I think it would be a
lot nicer than having 3 million peripherals hanging out the back of your
machine to keep it updated. :-)
Comments on my pipe dream?
--Erik
----------------------------------------
Erik M. Hume
University of Pittsburgh School of Law
emhst21+@pitt.edu
http://www.pitt.edu/~emhst21
----------------------------------------
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Re: Super CMD 64
================
Subject: Re: Super CMD 64
From: mmontcha@orednet.org (Matthew Montchalin)
Date: 1998/03/10
In a previous article, emhst21+@pitt.edu (Erik Hume) says:
> All of this talk of a C64 in a tower case has me wondering -- what
>if CMD made a new C64 with a SuperCPU, RamLink, Swiftlink & JiffyDOS
>built in? Now, I know this would probably not be a commercially viable
"Commercially viable" --- those are the key words. They are dealing with
an aftermarket right now, and --- although a Tower 64 might be a nice
thing to have --- unless they can tie it in with the 21st Century, things
won't look very bright for those kinds of proposals.
Now, as for a set of magnetic card readers daisy chained into the serial
bus, and being operated by a Tower 64, loaded up with CMD hard drives,
maybe CMD might start making enough money to just BUY the rights to the
name "C-64!" They really ought to work on BUSINESS hardware unique to the
C-64 aftermarket.
As for daydreams, I fantasize of a VIC-III chip with 64 sprites and
private RAM, with DMA capabilities. That way the main mpu could speed
away as fast as it wants, updating video only when necessary.
--
At enim vela pendent liminibus grammaticarum scholarum, sed non illa magis
honorem secreti quam tegimentum erroris significant. -Confessiones St. Aug.
Re: Super CMD 64
================
Subject: Re: Super CMD 64
From: gippah
Date: 1998/03/10
Erik Hume wrote:
>
> All of this talk of a C64 in a tower case has me wondering -- what
> if CMD made a new C64 with a SuperCPU, RamLink, Swiftlink & JiffyDOS
> built in? Now, I know this would probably not be a commercially viable
> product, but humor me for a second. Make a small cube-like case (no
> bigger than an Apple //gs) and redesign a Rev. E mobo to fit in it.
> Include internal slots (ala PC/Apple) on the mobo that are pin
> compatible with the expansion port. Make a SuperCPU card, RAMLink Card,
> Swiftlink Card, etc for these slots. Make an external keyboard for the
> machine. Keep all physical storage devices external (a la Apple) to
> keep costs down.
>
> I imagine any copyright issues could be easily circumvented by requiring
> purchasers to either provide original C64C roms or work them into the
> purchase price.
>
> Now I know that this would probably not be a commercially viable option
> for CMD (or any manufacturer at this point), but I think it would be a
> lot nicer than having 3 million peripherals hanging out the back of your
> machine to keep it updated. :-)
>
> Comments on my pipe dream?
I think CMD has been thinking about doing this very thing, actually.
I'm sure one of the Dougs will give a better answer though. :)
--
----
Remove your finger from my email address to send me a message.